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First Cycle Timing Questions

jfm5193

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Hey guys, i have everything planned and ordered for my first cycle and it looks like this:


Weeks1-6 Halo 3caps ed, Anabolic Matrix 3caps ed, ACS 3 caps ed

Weeks7-12 ACS 3caps ed, Ultra Male 1 cap ed, Clomid 50mg ed (ONLY WEEKS 7-10), and E control 3caps ed (WEEKS 10-12)

Now, the questions that I have are: If i split the halo morning/night, would i take the anabolic matrix and ACS around noon?

During PCT, can i just take everything at one time, say before bed?

Does the timing with this stuff matter much?
 
Take the anabolic matrix when you dose the halo.
Take the ACS mid day.
Yes, take everything at bedtime during pct.
Yes timing can make a difference......not crucial but still makes a difference.
 
^What RSP said.

And I have tried with multiple cycles... I have NEVER noticed any significant differences when timing my hormones differently. W/ the exception of some stronger illegal AAS.
 
ok thanks guys. For the week that the clomid and e control overlap, it is ok to take them at the same time?
 
You take the e-control 3 times throughout the day, so 1 of the dosings will overlap, and that's fine, but the other two won't.
 
ok thanks guys. For the week that the clomid and e control overlap, it is ok to take them at the same time?
Yes, that is completely fine. I'd recommend just taking them all prior to bed, with the clomid. No need to make things more complicated than they have to be if it is NOT going to make any significant difference when splitting the dosage across the day.
 
You will want to make some changes to your PCT program. You do NOT want to take your AI in weeks 10-12. Rather, you want to start it at the beginning of PCT and run it until PCT is over. Below, I copy & pasted a post I put up at BSL because I saw someone else doing this same exact thing. Bad move. Also, your PCT is a bit too long for a simple 6 week cycle. 4-5 weeks is generally sufficient for any oral cycle you will run with these prodicts. In fact, 5 weeks is normally long enough for heavy 12-16 week injectables cycles. It does not take long to restore test production with a properly set up PCT program. 4-5 weeks is normal...maybe 6 with longer injectable cycles. see below.



How to properly use an AI with your serm during PCT.




When reading another post on this board, I noticed that some of the recommendations given, pertaining to PCT drugs, were not in the reader's best interest. Being that I have now seen this recommendation made numerous times all over the BSL & IML boards, I want to clear up the confusion. The recommendations I am referring to are those which state that individuals should begin using an A.I. 3 weeks after PCT has commenced, while the 2nd issue pertains to PCT length and will be given only minor emphasis.​








The following text talks about how to proplery implement both AI's and serms during your PCT, for optimal effect.

I will start off strong by saying right up front that we should not wait 3 weeks to begin using an AI with our serm. Rather, it should be implemented right from the start of PCT, in conjunction with the Clomid. There are a few reasons for this, but first I would like to provide you with a brief understanding of Clomid and how it works in the body. First off, Clomid is a synthetic estrogen derivative which possesses inhernet estrogenic activity. This inherent estrogenic activity has a direct, negative effect on natural testosterone production. This is due to Clomid's ability to act as both an agonist & antagonist at the estrogen receptor. At the same time, Clomid works by sensitizing the pituitary cells to the effect of GnRH through its estrogenic activity, rather than anti-estrogenic activity. The estrogenic effect of Clomid presents a unique problem, as other serms, such as Nolvadex, do not have this effect. Because of this, Clomid needs to be handled a bit differently, as far as how we incorporate it into a cycle with AI's. We will not be addressing the propr use of Nolvadex in this post, as it is outside the scope of this short article.

When neglecting to use an AI with Clomid, the high level of circulating estrogens produced as a result of Clomid administration will have an inhibitory effect on natural testosterone production. Fortunately, this inhibitory effect is mostly overcome by Clomid's senstizing effects on the pituitary, but it is still a relevant issue none the less. Much more importantly, when Clomid is administered in the absence of an AI, it is impossible to achieve an optimal response in terms of endogenous testosterone production. Why? In a word...estrogen. Every time testosterone levels increase, so do estrogen levels, via increased aromatization. The problem with this is that estrogen is one of the most potent inhibitors of natural testosterone production, which is why aromatizable steroids suppress the HPTA so severely. In addition, this is also why anti-estrogens do such an excellent job as at elevating testosterone levels. Whether estrogen levels are elevated by using a bunch of aromatizable steroids...or by using PCT drugs, estrogen will still have a suppressive effect on testosterone production. This limits the effectiveness of serms like Clomid and Nolvadex when used in the absence of an AI...because as soon as testosterone levels start to rise, the body responds by increasing the rate of aromatization, which leads to increased estrogen, which in turn causes the body to say..."Hey, testicles...stop producing so much testosterone because estrogen levels are getting too high".

However, we can counteract this effect by using an AI with our serm right from the start. By waiting 3 weeks to begin AI therapy, we allow systematic estrogen levels to increase...and once this has happened, there is nothing we can do to fix the situation, other than to accept it and wait for the newly formed estrogen to live out its full life. Not only does this prevent maximal testosterone production from occuring during the first 3 weeks, but it will continue to cause problems in the coming weeks, as the suppressive influence of the estrogen will remain until it is no longer active in the system. By using an AI right from the start, estrogen levels will be kept low the entire time, eliminating their suppressive influence. So, with estrogen now taken out of the picture, how high will testosterone level rise? They will continue to increase until our androgen level gets too high for the body's liking..."and just how high is this?", you might ask. Well, according to university research which studied the testosterone-boosting effects of a particular OTC A.I. (now disocntinued), total testosterone levels increased over 250% within 4 weeks of use, while free testosterone levels were increased over 600%!!!! In addition, other univeristy research has shown several prescription AI's to have similar testosterone-boosting effects. When Clomid and Nolva were subjected to the same research, both fell short of the incredible results witnessed in the study qouted above. In other words, the OTC AI out-performed the serms by a measurable margin. Now, I am not saying AI's are necessarily better PCT drugs, as there are other factors to consider when making such a judgment (increase in sperm count, motility, etc), but they are certainly effective at elevating testosteroine levels.

So, what is the conclusion? The conclusion is that we should begin using an AI along with a serm, at the outset of PCT. Remember, estrogen is the enemy of HPTA recovery, so we must minimize its production during PCT if we hope to acheive a maximum increase in testosterone levels. Below you will find a properly structured PCT.




Before listing the PCT program, I want to take a brief moment to address PCT length relative to cycle length. When running short 30 day oral-only cycles, the length of PCT does not need to exceed the length of the cycle itself...or thereabouts . It just isn't necessary, as the suppressive effects of a 30 day oral-only cycle are generally signifcantly easier to recover from than a heavy, 16 week injectable cycle, for example. A more concentrated, less time consuming PCT would better serve the BBr under these circumstances.







PCT (for 30 day cycle)

Days 1-28: Clomid @ 50-100 mg/day....or Nolvdex @ 20-40 mg/day.
Days 1-35: Eradicate @ 3 caps/day.

*** Both Clomid & Nolva can be used simultaneously for greater effectiveness. If so, Nolva should be run 1 week longer than the Clomid.
*** HCG not included: While HCG is a very effective maintenance/recovery agent, it was not included here, in order to minimize costs.
.​
 
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very interesting. I knew and understood most of what you had written already, it just hadnt occurred to me how to properly set up the pct as I am new to all of this. most of the decisions I made based on my cycle were going off what others had previously done and adrenolin's suggestions in other threads. I collected a bunch of research from other experiences and compiled it into what I thought was a decent cycle.

Just to make absolutely sure, and to write it down again, a 5 week pct is ok for 6 weeks of halo extreme.

PCT:
clomid: 50/50/50/50/0
e control: 3/3/3/3/3
ACS: 3/3/3/3/3
Ultra Male: 1/1/1/1/1
 
only thing is that i only have 1 bottle of e control. 90capsules / 3 per day = 30 day supply. Does this mean I need to order another bottle, or is the last week ok being run at 2 pills per day. Like I said, I'm new to this all and I dont know what is set in stone and what is modifiable. That is why I look to more experienced people for guidance
 
very interesting. I knew and understood most of what you had written already, it just hadnt occurred to me how to properly set up the pct as I am new to all of this. most of the decisions I made based on my cycle were going off what others had previously done and adrenolin's suggestions in other threads. I collected a bunch of research from other experiences and compiled it into what I thought was a decent cycle.

Just to make absolutely sure, and to write it down again, a 5 week pct is ok for 6 weeks of halo extreme.

PCT:
clomid: 50/50/50/50/0
e control: 3/3/3/3/3
ACS: 3/3/3/3/3
Ultra Male: 1/1/1/1/1

That is completely fine...excellent, actually, especially for a relatively mild cycle of Halo Extreme.
 
only thing is that i only have 1 bottle of e control. 90capsules / 3 per day = 30 day supply. Does this mean I need to order another bottle, or is the last week ok being run at 2 pills per day. Like I said, I'm new to this all and I dont know what is set in stone and what is modifiable. That is why I look to more experienced people for guidance

While in a perfect world it would be ideal, NO...it is not necessary and you will recover compleely fine. For a long time, no one even used AI's during PCT and guys still recovered well with serms alone...so don't fret just because you don't have an extra 5 days of Eradicate on hand.
 
I appreciate your help and I especially appreciate you chiming in, in the first place. Thanks for helping me get the most out of this cycle and helping me recover as quickly as possible
 
Just for the sake of discussion, Mike, I would be curious to see your response to Adrenolin's post. This excerpt was in regards to the PCT you prescribed:

"I'm unsure of how he might change this, if any for a 6wk cycle, but I'm sure he will chime in and give his 2¢. His PCT is designed to as the product says, eradicate estrogen and thereby maximizing testosterone in the PCT, while mine leaves a little estrogen around. I feel like shit when I obliterate my estrogen levels - also being a powerlifter, estrogen is essential to joint and tendon health. Lifting heavy and intense as I do ON cycle as I do OFF - eradicating my estrogen, is simply not effective for me. But both PCT's WILL work."

Maybe Adrenolin could chime in again, too. I am a powerlifter as well and I think I see both Adrenolin's and Mike's points. This stuff is so interesting
 
If we're speaking of joints and tendons now, I may be able to help.

I should have noted that estrogen is not directly essential to joint/tendon health in being that it does not strengthen them, however it does have anti-inflammatory properties and works very well at reducing or even minimizing pain in the area. Also, as your estrogen levels decrease, your fluid level will decrease as well, including that surrounding the joints.




Also many of the foods we eat have a direct impact on joint health. Many foods contain micronutrients that positively impact the inflammatory response, in which medications such as Advil, Motrin, and other NSAID's act, making these drugs (and all their side effects, most namely, NSAID's can inhibit muscle growth while in use) avoidable.

Foods rich in omega–3 fatty acids are a perfect example. Such as fish oil (we sell it as Essence EFA; http://www.ironmaglabs.com/product-list/essence-efa/ ; some of the benefits are listed on that page), quite a miracle supplement and a recommended staple supplement of mine. I supplement 10-15g daily, honestly sometimes just a handful of these little buggers. They greatly improve the overall feeling of my joints and tendons, especially when under stress. But that's not all, fish oils high in EPA have been proven to have anabolic properties. Taking fish oil supplements or eating a diet that is rich in fish fatty acids have a body recompositioning effect: your fat mass decreases and muscle mass increases. But this is getting beyond the scope of joints and tendons, so back to the topic at hand.

There are specific foods that have been associated with inflammation of the joints/tendons which include citrus, corn and corn products, dairy products, grains (wheat, barley, oats, rye), yeast, and eggs, as well as members of the nightshade family - tomatoes, potatoes, peppers, and eggplant. Figuring out what you’re sensitive to may just make all the difference with your efforts to reduce joint pain.

Vitamin C and E have been used to reduce anti inflammatory issues. As well as, dark green vegetables like spinach or kale; raw nuts and seeds - like almonds, walnuts, pecans, and sunflower seeds; oils - extra virgin olive, grapeseed, macadamia nut, and avocado; and as mentioned before Omega 3 rich fish - like salmon, mackerel, and even anchovies!
 
in order to learn more about all of this...

supposing I stacked halo/cyano like this
halo: 3/3/3/3/3/3
cyano: 0/0/2/2/2/2

with the other stuff remaining the same, does this still make sense?

PCT:
clomid: 50/50/50/50/0
e control: 3/3/3/3/1
ACS: 3/3/3/3/3
Ultra Male: 1/1/1/1/1

reason for e control being 1 the last week is due to bottle limits
What I am trying to learn about is when a pct needs to be even more rigorous.
 
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