Msten w/ 4 Andro question (first post)

I have been doing a lot of reading on this site and BSL.

Today marks my first post.

quick stats:

5' 6"
170lb
12% bf (guess)
32 years old
lifting since 14 w/ a 5 year hiatus due to herniated disc
NO PH experience


Lift 5 day split (during winter no cardio)
due to back injury no squatting or dead lifts
macros:
220-250 grams of protein
300 carbs
fat calories vary
try to get 3k calories per day

looking to gain lean mass and tighten up overall. Strength gains are secondary.
Goal is to maintain 180 w/ 8% body fat from this first cycle.
very prone to gyno - even daa gives me sensitive nips

after research looking at:

4 weeks of:

2 - msten
3 - 4 andro
cycle support
e control
(eradicate?)

pct

3 weeks

ultra male
e control
eradicate
(nervous to order nolv or Clomid)


When my test is up I can get aggressive and am looking to keep that as controlled as possible by limiting/selecting my choice of supplementation.

I am looking for critique/suggestions on cycle, estrogen control, pct etc.

Once I select and start I will keep a log with pics that I will update regularly.

Thank you.

e-control is a good product. Looks like you have your plan mapped out well brother.

I look forward to your log!

We'll be following, if you need more detailed help laying out your cycle just give us a holler. I would suggest the E-Control, will be a one stop shop if you go that route. I would still like to see you do a SERM.

Thank you for responding heavyiron.

Is taking e control with eradicate overkill?

thank you

Theneck...would you mind helping me layout a 4 or 6 week cycle? (Whichever one is more beneficial while taking into considerations sides)

am I on the right track with these two compounds considering my concerns (aggression, gyno)?

thank you in advance.

Becoming said:

Thank you for responding heavyiron.

Is taking e control with eradicate overkill?

thank you

Click to expand...

At the same time would be overkill. I would do the E-Contol for 4wks @ 3caps e/d

Becoming said:

Thank you for responding heavyiron.

Is taking e control with eradicate overkill?

thank you

Click to expand...

You can use both but honestly e-control is plenty.

Becoming said:

(nervous to order nolv or Clomid)

Click to expand...

What has you nervous to order a SERM?

Here's a detailed layout with a 6wk staggered cycle. Be sure to continue to as questions as you go.

Thank you very much for the detailed cycle.

i am going to place my order tomorrow.

Four questions on the cycle.

1 - is there a reason not to take the 4 Andro throughout the 6 weeks?
2 - since I'm gyno prone would it be advantageous to take e control throughout as well?
3 - M Sten at 30mg high for first time PH or I should just see where it takes me?
4 - any OTC recommendations for prolactin to have on hand just in case?

I really appreciate the support.

i feel like I'm 10 making my Christmas List...

thank you

Becoming said:

Thank you very much for the detailed cycle.

i am going to place my order tomorrow.

Four questions on the cycle.

1 - is there a reason not to take the 4 Andro throughout the 6 weeks?
2 - since I'm gyno prone would it be advantageous to take e control throughout as well?
3 - M Sten at 30mg high for first time PH or I should just see where it takes me?
4 - any OTC recommendations for prolactin to have on hand just in case?

I really appreciate the support.

i feel like I'm 10 making my Christmas List...

thank you

Click to expand...

1.) Was trying to save you some paydirt, but running for the full 4wks would be great.
2.) You can run E-Control on cycle. Ultra Male would be another option @ 1cap e/d.
3.) This is a responsible dose out of the gate.
4.) Just use the Ultra Male or E-Control on cycle.


That's what we're here for brother.

Becoming said:

Thank you very much for the detailed cycle.

i am going to place my order tomorrow.

Four questions on the cycle.

1 - is there a reason not to take the 4 Andro throughout the 6 weeks?
2 - since I'm gyno prone would it be advantageous to take e control throughout as well?
3 - M Sten at 30mg high for first time PH or I should just see where it takes me?
4 - any OTC recommendations for prolactin to have on hand just in case?

I really appreciate the support.

i feel like I'm 10 making my Christmas List...

thank you

Click to expand...

You should take the 4andro if you can! 4 andro is your "test" base since it converts to testosterone.

1. Then the Msten will have synergy, or a better reaction combined with the 4andro.

2. I wouldn't take an anti E with this cycle, msten really should not and does not convert, but what you should do is just keep an eye on it...If it starts to surface just jump on Nolva ED at 20mgs or the Econtrol at that point. You should be fine though.

3. Msten at 30mgs is a bit high for a first time, 20mgs is usually a pretty solid figure, HOWEVER, as long as you are taking a good liver support and drinking a ton of water all day, you will be fine. Be sure to break this up into at least 3 dosages, so 10mgs first thing in the am, 10mgs around lunch, 10mgs around 3-4pm...Don't take any of this too late at night...mimic the bodies natural levels which are highest in the am. If you feel any lethargy or fatigue while on cycle, drop down to 20mgs ED and see if that resolves it.

If you are running 4 andro, same thing, take 1 cap with the morning dose of the msten and if you are doing 2 caps of 4 andro then take the second dose with the afternoon dosage.

4. There is a good OTC prolactin blocker, PM me if you need it. Otherwise, check out the store the peptide company here may have Caber or Bromo in liquid form..I am not sure. I don't think you will need it. Compounds like Msten and 4-andro, though they may cause little spikes are certainly not going to cause issues that compounds like tren or deca can cause. Again keep an eye on it.

Best of luck to you. What I find odd is that you are knowledgeable about ancillaries, etc..enough to ask if you need them, but then you are asking for help with a basic cycle? Seems odd. Either way, welcome to the site, and feel free to ask more questions if you should have them


^bump for other answers^

Hey Wesley,

Thank you for all of the advice. To answer your question I have been out if the supplement field for about 10 years or so. As I'm reading through the boards things are coming back to me. Getting advice is making me feel a bit more confident in my decision.

Easier for me just to say I'm rusty and in need of reassurance.

Thank you

Becoming said:

Hey Wesley,

Thank you for all of the advice. To answer your question I have been out if the supplement field for about 10 years or so. As I'm reading through the boards things are coming back to me. Getting advice is making me feel a bit more confident in my decision.

Easier for me just to say I'm rusty and in need of reassurance.

Thank you

Click to expand...

Ask away, that's what we're here for!

The Neck said:

1.) Was trying to save you some paydirt, but running for the full 4wks would be great.
2.) You can run E-Control on cycle. Ultra Male would be another option @ 1cap e/d.
3.) This is a responsible dose out of the gate.
4.) Just use the Ultra Male or E-Control on cycle.


That's what we're here for brother.

Click to expand...

Sorry to overlap your response, looks like we posted at the same time

Yours is much more to the point, solid advice

And OP you are welcome, I didn't mean to post back to back on the neck..I would have left his, we both are saying the same things though really

The Neck said:

1.) Was trying to save you some paydirt, but running for the full 4wks would be great.
2.) You can run E-Control on cycle. Ultra Male would be another option @ 1cap e/d.
3.) This is a responsible dose out of the gate.
4.) Just use the Ultra Male or E-Control on cycle.


That's what we're here for brother.

Click to expand...

Sounds great very exciting stuff!

again I appreciate your response and advice.

thank you

WesleyInman said:

Sorry to overlap your response, looks like we posted at the same time

Yours is much more to the point, solid advice

And OP you are welcome, I didn't mean to post back to back on the neck..I would have left his, we both are saying the same things though really

Click to expand...

Actually you helped out with solid details!!

Hi guys so I actually have a question regarding a similar cycle. I just finished up 4 weeks of my 4andro and M-Stem. I was following PCT

Weeks 5 - 10
Ultra Male
1 cap daily (prior to bed)

Weeks 5 - 8
Clomid
1mL [50mg] daily (prior to bed)

Advanced Cycle Support
2 caps daily (prior to bed)

Weeks 8 - 10
E-Control
3 caps daily (prior to bed)

My problem is with the Clomid I bought is 25mg/ml meaning I would take 2ml to achieve 50mg dosing per day.
Now weeks 5-8 = 21 days meaning I would use 42ml of the 60ml container. So I wont use all of the clomid with
this structured pct. Does this all sound correct to you guys, should I change anything?

LittleHuman said:

Hi guys so I actually have a question regarding a similar cycle. I just finished up 4 weeks of my 4andro and M-Stem. I was following PCT

Weeks 5 - 10
Ultra Male
1 cap daily (prior to bed)

Weeks 5 - 8
Clomid
1mL [50mg] daily (prior to bed)

Advanced Cycle Support
2 caps daily (prior to bed)

Weeks 8 - 10
E-Control
3 caps daily (prior to bed)

My problem is with the Clomid I bought is 25mg/ml meaning I would take 2ml to achieve 50mg dosing per day.
Now weeks 5-8 = 21 days meaning I would use 42ml of the 60ml container. So I wont use all of the clomid with
this structured pct. Does this all sound correct to you guys, should I change anything?

Click to expand...

Nope your good brother, better to have a little extra than less.

Littlehuman...what results/sides did your cycle yield?

thank you

Looking at an MSten Rx/Super Tren/4 Andro 4-6 week cycle, obviously followed by PCT -- too much and can I go for it? And of course I'd run cycle support throughout.

golfgeak said:

Looking at an MSten Rx/Super Tren/4 Andro 4-6 week cycle, obviously followed by PCT -- too much and can I go for it? And of course I'd run cycle support throughout.

Click to expand...

That a big hitter, make sure all support supps & PCT is in place

Becoming said:

Littlehuman...what results/sides did your cycle yield?

thank you

Click to expand...

Hey Becoming, I'll go ahead and keep things short.

I went up about 16lbs in body weight while maintaining
a pretty low BF (visible abs still).

Strength went up tremendously.

I did experience lethargy some days.

I gained quite a large appetite.

My sex drive actually decreased, and I did have some ed issues.
This was while taking 4x4andro a day, and 2x M-Stem. I'm not sure
how common this is for people. I will say that since starting my pct
and using the ultra male this went away and I'm functioning perfectly
once again. Testes did shrink. I had very MILD acne especially on areas
that I normally didn't get such as chest and back.

Generally more irritable..

Overally I felt freaking amazing though, especially weeks 3 and 4. Like its a hard
to describe feeling basically felt unstoppable.. heh

Happy with the cycle, and at the moment just trying to maintain the gains I made.

Littlehuman... thank you for the detailed response. I am going to run the same cycle but for 6 weeks. The ed thing bugs me out quite a bit.

From what I read 4 of the 4 andro should be enough to combat that but I know everyone's different.

Hopefully you maintain your gains.

Ill post a log when I am ready to start.

Thank you