Very new and looking for reliable advice please...

I have been researching various products and sites for weeks now and I feel I have landed at the right place here at IML. I am a 38 year old male, and looking to cut fat and bulk up my muscle mass. Seriously considering the M-Sten stack as advertised here on the site. I am a virgin to all this so any advice on how to proceed would be greatly appreciated. I have the clean diet down, and nearing completion of my workout routine that I will use. Just want to have a nice trouble free (as possible) first cycle. Thinking about doing 4 cycles (4 weeks on/8 weeks off) total over the course of a year to see how much progress I can make. Any extras outside of the M-Sten stack that I should purchase? Should I even use M-Sten to start out? Thank you for your time...

Msten is an amazing compound but you may not get the most out if it if you use it for your first cycle. Save it for later on in the year.

If you want to start out with products that are non methylated (liver safe) and still produce good results then look towards the Andro Stack products.

If you are ready for a methylated product that is mild but effective, then Halo extreme is a good place to start.

Before you do any of this however, please do some research on cycling in general, with particular attention to PCT (post cycle therapy)

Browse tunedsports.com for some good reads on these subjects.

Andro Complete Stack $249.00 (Save
10%!)


Complete stack:
Epi-Andro Rx™ - 2
bottles
1-Andro Rx™ - 2 bottles
4-Andro Rx™ - 2 bottles
E-Control Rx
2.0™ - 1 bottle

Good Article on Post Cycle Therapy:

http://thinksteroids.com/articles/post-cycle-therapy-pct/

To echo what CHEZ said... PCT is critical and deserves as much, if not more attention than just popping m-sten for example... Yes, doing the right training, nutrition, and lifestyle things are needed, but maintaining organ function after the fact is crucial also!

chez said:

Andro Complete Stack $249.00 (Save
10%!)


Complete stack:
Epi-Andro Rx™ - 2
bottles
1-Andro Rx™ - 2 bottles
4-Andro Rx™ - 2 bottles
E-Control Rx
2.0™ - 1 bottle

Click to expand...

Good choice.

Either the stack mentioned above or a Halo-Extreme solo run would be good choices..pct from either shouldnt be too difficult recovery wise....

IML advanced cycle support is a must anyway you go...

Thank you everyone. I understand the PCT phase for sure. I already take milk thistle everyday in my normal routine so I would definetly get the complete stack included in the IML store.

I was told that no matter what I do I should get my body fat content down before I do any cycle. In that case should I buy and take the E-blocker 2.0 RX now as I diet, and then start my cycle after a decent fat based weight loss regimen?! My thoughts are my body is producing estrogen more than it should right now and the e-blocker could help me?!

SuperBeast said:

Thank you everyone. I understand the PCT phase for sure. I already take milk thistle everyday in my normal routine so I would definetly get the complete stack included in the IML store.

I was told that no matter what I do I should get my body fat content down before I do any cycle. In that case should I buy and take the E-blocker 2.0 RX now as I diet, and then start my cycle after a decent fat based weight loss regimen?! My thoughts are my body is producing estrogen more than it should right now and the e-blocker could help me?!

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You can start your cycle now, and continue cutting. Being on cycle while cutting will help you to maintain/build muscle during the cut. You can run E-Control during cycle or during PCT or both.

What eb said....this parrot talk about 10% bf or whatever is needed to run something is pretty much just that....repeated talk...the compounds are going to work if your 8% or 18%....its not like you ingest them and your body says...."well your not 10% so I'm not gonna accept this compound"...if your in a healthy state and diet and training are good ...then fire away...

Most people have no clue what there body fat is anyway...YouTube a video by John Meadows doing a.static water test the day after a national show last year....guy is one of he hardest leanest guys to ever compete...his bf % was 5.4%...so all these cats that think there 6-7% are 9-10% and up from there..

Understood gentlemen. Thank you very much for your knowledge. You guys are a great asset to IML forums!

SuperBeast said:

Understood gentlemen. Thank you very much for your knowledge. You guys are a great asset to IML forums!

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Thanks for your support! If you have any other questions along the way we are all happy to help you out.

I'm fairly new to the IML forum, but have been around others a bit. I'll chime in with my personal experience two cents.

As you said, these guys here are a great sounding board. Great advice has been offered and you seem willing to do your own homework as well. I wish somebody had helped me...I bought some SD from a local supp shop thinking if it's in a supp store can't be that bad for you. Dude told me to take one cap a day till bottle was gone (90 caps). I took 10 mg SD for 90 days. Somehow, I managed to avoid any truly nasty sides. I was lucky.

Since, I've run a few things, including a sponsored run of M-sten for PHF. M-sten at 20mg (2 caps) was a great prohormone. I used it to cut down about 10 lbs in a month while getting stronger. However, by the end I was truly feeling serious lethargy. It can be a pretty harsh PH. I would say try something more mild then move up. Not that your body can't handle the harsh, but I've seen a lot of people that claim no results on milder things if the reverse is done (harsh first).

As for the body fat content, as has already been said, it doesn't matter a bit. The compounds work the same regardless. Some claim the higher your bf, the more likely you get side effects or that the sides are harsher. I've run compounds at 20-25% bf (currently around 25% and running SDMZ 3.0) with little to no sides. The main reason I think people say this is that what ever gains/changes you make on a compound are not readily apparent at a high bf. Personally, I think if your end goal is 10% and you start at 25%, why not do PH at the start and preserve as much mass as possible as you cut bf?

I'll save you my personal yo-yo story, but I've been through it all. I'm a little younger (29) than you, but would gladly help you out any way I can if you have questions for me. I'm currently trying to bring myself into balance as I'm adjusting to life with a family, kids, and a real post school job for the last 2 years.

Good luck on your journey sir.

iceman99uc said:

I'm fairly new to the IML forum, but have been around others a bit. I'll chime in with my personal experience two cents.

As you said, these guys here are a great sounding board. Great advice has been offered and you seem willing to do your own homework as well. I wish somebody had helped me...I bought some SD from a local supp shop thinking if it's in a supp store can't be that bad for you. Dude told me to take one cap a day till bottle was gone (90 caps). I took 10 mg SD for 90 days. Somehow, I managed to avoid any truly nasty sides. I was lucky.

Click to expand...

Jesus!

It was a bottle of S-roid by Hardcore Formulations bought from a DSD nutrition store that has since gone out of business. I asked for advice and dude handed me that. It's no wonder that stuff gets banned if those type of people are selling it. I chalked my experience up to my own stupidity. Others in this country likely would have sued lol.

Did teach me that I tolerate low dose SD well.

iceman99uc said:

It was a bottle of S-roid by Hardcore Formulations bought from a DSD nutrition store that has since gone out of business. I asked for advice and dude handed me that. It's no wonder that stuff gets banned if those type of people are selling it. I chalked my experience up to my own stupidity. Others in this country likely would have sued lol.

Did teach me that I tolerate low dose SD well.

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HA! DSD is based here in VB!

ebfitness said:

HA! DSD is based here in VB!

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I think they had 5 stores at the time there in VB. One was here in Mason, OH for a short time. It was the only non-VB location I believe. They had some solid products and the guy was pretty nice and knowledgeable. It was really the only time he led me down a bad path. Just wish he would have given me a heads up to do some research instead of just said, here buy this.

Wow, Iceman that is craziness. Thank you for your input as well. As I start in a month, or so, I am sure I will have many questions. Good luck in whatever you do good sir!

SuperBeast said:

Wow, Iceman that is craziness. Thank you for your input as well. As I start in a month, or so, I am sure I will have many questions. Good luck in whatever you do good sir!

Click to expand...

We will be here for you bro. Ask away.

iceman99uc said:

It was a bottle of S-roid by Hardcore Formulations bought from a DSD nutrition store that has since gone out of business. I asked for advice and dude handed me that. It's no wonder that stuff gets banned if those type of people are selling it. I chalked my experience up to my own stupidity. Others in this country likely would have sued lol.

Did teach me that I tolerate low dose SD well.

Click to expand...

How were the results anyway? I assume they didn't line you up with a good PCT or anything of the sort, but did you make some good progress on it? I've heard of good results in the past with just 10mg daily of SD for extended cycles, just not quite that long.

locallifter said:

How were the results anyway? I assume they didn't line you up with a good PCT or anything of the sort, but did you make some good progress on it? I've heard of good results in the past with just 10mg daily of SD for extended cycles, just not quite that long.

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Aggression and focus in the gym was crazy. Every time I went I wanted to crush anything and everything. I would say that strength was probably up to, however, that was followed by a fairly long layoff as my wife and I had a little boy shortly after, so all strength gains were lost. Any size put on was likely lost as well as I was not paying any attention to diet particularly and there was nothing done for PCT.

I honestly would love to have tried low dose SD again, but it was banned shortly after.

I wish I was able to try SD... :-( sad day...

You can still find it places... Just gotta look hard enough

I'll be running the original MDE in March or April this year to try sdrol for the first time myself. Looking forward to it.

locallifter said:

You can still find it places... Just gotta look hard enough

I'll be running the original MDE in March or April this year to try sdrol for the first time myself. Looking forward to it.

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Thats another compound i wanted to try... poops... looks like I will have to start digging up rocks and looking under the bushes... LOL

To the original thread poster.

If you go non methly, the 1-AD, 4-AD stack is perfect.

If you just want a good beginner stack, halo is the go to for that. Halo is very mild when it comes to sides (if there is any) and shows great results. Most people stack with 4-AD for there first cycle and it never dissapoints when it comes to results or the ride.

Either way, become a PCT Guru now. Find out what works, what you want, and stick to it. SERM is 100% necessary. Even if your first cycle is mild like HALO and you might not need it, why risk it? Also if you find out what SERM you like now when the stakes are not that high, you won't be stranded when your on some stronger stuff and you find out the SERM you bought gives you crazy sides and you can't take it. Waiting on a postman to deliver your next SERM when you are suppost to PCT'ing is a scary thought.

downz said:

To the original thread poster.

If you go non methly, the 1-AD, 4-AD stack is perfect.

If you just want a good beginner stack, halo is the go to for that. Halo is very mild when it comes to sides (if there is any) and shows great results. Most people stack with 4-AD for there first cycle and it never dissapoints when it comes to results or the ride.

Either way, become a PCT Guru now. Find out what works, what you want, and stick to it. SERM is 100% necessary. Even if your first cycle is mild like HALO and you might not need it, why risk it? Also if you find out what SERM you like now when the stakes are not that high, you won't be stranded when your on some stronger stuff and you find out the SERM you bought gives you crazy sides and you can't take it. Waiting on a postman to deliver your next SERM when you are suppost to PCT'ing is a scary thought.

Click to expand...

Right on. USPS kills me...

Thanks for the insight downz. I am getting closer and closer to where I want to start...

Well what are your thoughts so far? My vote is Halo for anyone beginning, but the non-methly stack will work as well. More importantly what are you thinking in regards to a PCT?

I am thinking 2 cycles of the iml epi-andro stacks with e-blocker both on cycle and during pct. Then during pct include Nolva. After completing that doing 2 cycles of iml halo stacks, again with the e-blocker the entire time, and include Nolva as part of my pct...

While running epiandro you do not need to run e blocker the whole cycle. Use during PCT with SERM. Remember to take a few months off between cycles.