First cycle

Ok. I posted in more of the public/general area of the forum getting advice. I received some information from adrenoline I think is his name but I want to get some more opinions and what not.

My first cycle in the fall

I know this has probably been answered plenty of times and what not but I am thinking about starting my first PH cycle in the fall of this year or even waiting an extra year. I know this is quite some time away and I just want to make it clear that I want to plan this out thoroughly and do it right.


I am in college and the lifestyle isn't necessarily in the best environment because of the stress and all you can eat buffet in the cafeteria. I do not party not do I drink so you can rule that out of the question. I work out consistently 5-6x per week mainly 5. I'm majoring in accounting which is highly stressful which is most likely irrelevant at this time but why not let you know something about me?


Height: 5' 10"
weight: 174lbs at the moment (cut down from 189lbs)
gender: male
lifting exp: going on 3years


To start off, I would like to get the compound out of the way. I was told to do halodrol or epi for my first cycle and I am only wanting to run one single compound or two if it isn't going to be incredibly hars. However, I was told to run msten as my first cycle and it would be just fine. I would like some opinions from experienced users if possible. I am wishing to bulk up some and preferred not to be a shit ton of water weight. As for expected gains over the normal 4 week span? I am hoping to get between 6-15lbs if that's reasonable.
Next is the PCT. Is it absolutely necessary to use a SERM or can I just run the OTC supplements and supplements listed on the site? And if I do use a SERM, which should I use? Clomid or nolvadex?


Lastly, if anyone that does give any sort of help could you help me with the cycle and the approximate price?


The date that I would like to start would be about October or November of this year or next year (dead srs).

I am hoping I can get a laid out PCT. I don't want to spend a bunch of money on useless items that I do not need.


Thank you guys in advance and hope this isn't a thread to get ransacked with trolls.

I will address a few things.

1.) There is no reason to wait until next year to begin....or even this fall. If you love working out and you want to be bigger, start now. Some guys get in in their head that everything needs to be perfect before they begin, as if taking one of these products is some monumental life decision that requires their full compliance on every level. This is bullshit! If you are already training and able to put food in you stomach, why wait to make gains? By this time next year you could be 30 lbs more muscular than you are now. Waiting is the biggest load of shit I hear come out of most people's mouths. If you are still going to be training 1 year from now, 2 years from now, 10 years from now, and you have already made the decision to use these products, it makes no sense to postpone the progress you could be making now! Why wait to be what you want to be? Why struggle for another 2 years, 1 year, or even 3 months to gain barely anything? Be what you want to be now. I have watched too many guys, who knew they wanted to use steroids, wait year after year after year...some even into their mid-30's...because they either thought everything needed to be prefect, or that they needed to wring out every last bit of natural potential they had left. As a result, they lived through their entire 20's (the best time of your life to look great) looking average...and of everyone I have spoken to that did this, they ALL regretted it. Don't wait to build the body you want now. If you have already been training for at least a couple years, know how to train, and understand the basic principles of bodybuilding nutrition, don't piss away the best years of your life being average. There is no better a time in your life to be big than in your 20's.

2.) Many are alos under the impression that these products are "harsh"...and that they need to have every single available preventative care supp available before they even begin contemplating use. They think that of they drink one beer, or take a single tylenol, their liver is going to crumble up and die. Don't believe the lie! Guys have been using oral AAS, many at very high dosages for years, without any liver issues. Here's the bottom line: These products, especially when used as directed, are not going to cause you any liver issues. Do you realize that for decades guys used no cycle support at all, at much higher doages and for much longer periods of time and were fine? Even if you didn't have the cash to use a cycle support products, you would be fine. The cycle recommendations listed on the bottles of these products are minimalist in nature. In other words, both the recommended dosing and cycle lengths indicated are designed to ensure user safety no matter who you are. By following product recommendations, especially when using Advanced Cycle Support (which only cost about $22 for 2 cycles worth), you have nothing to worry about. You can take these products as directed without any fear. Way too many guys think orals are way more toxic than they actually are. The medical community has allotted oral AAS a low-risk status in terms of toxicity for one reason--because they are not harsh! If they were, we would not have seen generations of people use oral AAS without issues. Out of the millions of users, there exists only a ew documented cases of people actually dying frm liver failure...and this was always in cvases of extreme abuse. Did you know that Anadrol, often considered one of the more "toxic" orals, was routinely prescribed by doctors at a dose of 200-300 mg per day (2-6X the normal BB'ing dose) for 4-6 months straight in those suffering with anemia...and not a single one of these patients, which numbered in the many 1,000's, suffered irreversible harm? I have run dozens and dozens of oral cycle, some at high dosages, and my liver is perfect. The liver is a regenerating organ. It's job is to deal with toxins. That is it job! It is MADE to deal with this stuff. Killing the liver is not an easy thing...and as long as you don't kill it (which would take far, far more than normal doses of oral AAS), it will always recover perfectly. Follow label recommendations, use cycle support, and make excelkent gains without any fear of harm.

3.) As for the all-you-can-eat cafeteria---that is a HUGE bonus for you! ake full advantage of it. eat there every freakin' day and make it your biggest meal. Making great gains requires only 2 things from a nutritional stanpoint--enough calories and protein. You will easily be able to get in enough cals and protein with an all all you can eat buffet. In fact, you are in a better situation than a lot of kids your age. You don't have to eata ton of proein and cals at each meal...and you don't have to eat 5-6X a day. You could make great gains eating only 3X a day, with one of them being a massive meal at the buffet, and 2 normal meals at some other point during the day. The body will deal with whatever you give to it. Some of these pro strongmen only eat 2 huge meals a day, witha few snacks inbetween...and they are huge! As long as you take in enough cals & protein, it doesn't matter how many meals you eat. You would be far better off eating only 3X daily, with one meal at the buffet...than the guy who eats 6X a day, with all the best supplements, but who doesn't eat enough.

4.) PCT. It is best to use a SERM and an AI, but not necessary. You can legally by Clomid from Superior hardcore peptides...and the AI called E-control, from IML. It is a suicide inhibitor just like Aromasin and will work just fine. Even if all you could afford was an AI like E-control, you would still recover...it would just take a bit longer. 30 years ago basically no one did any PCT at all...and they still recovered...just took a while. the point is that just because you don't have the perfect PCT, it is not a good enough reason to postpone your progress. There was a time, about 6 years ago, when I used ONLY Gaspari's Novadex XT (an AI) inbetween my 4-6 weeks oral cycles...and I made a full recovery in only 4-5 weeks, every time. I did this at least 9-10 times. I realized very quickly that the guys who say you can't recover adequately with just an AI were full of crap.

5.) As far as which product you should use first, listen carefully...IT DOES NOT MATTER! You can choose any product you want. None will cause significant water retetion...and most will make you harder and drier. All are suitable for first time use. The only product I sometimes advise people to wait at least one cycle to use is DMZ 3.0...but this is ONLY because it can cause lethargy in some people...and I don't want someone's first experience to be a negative one. Many people are completely fine with it, but just in case, you may want to wait. Still, if you know what to potentially expect and are prepared to deal with it, it is fine. M-sten is a great 1st product at 3 caps daily. Epi-tren is another good one. Epi-andro I don't recommend as a 1st cycle simply because it is mostly a hardener and won't give much gains. Halodrol is OK, but again, it is pretty weak compared to the other products I mentioned. Same with Decadrol--poor gains compared to the others...same with 1-test.

6.) Dont obssess too much over the details. Just train hard, eat well, chose a product that sound like it provides effects you like, and have fun. Good luck.

Thanks mike! I really appreciate the help! I am looking for mass right now so I think I'm going to go with msten. Should I do any other compound or make it a stand alone? If I ran epi-tren should I make it a stand alone or run another compound with it?

Ok. Here's what I was thinking to do for a cycle. Please throw in any advice or compound that you may seem fit.

Weeks 1-6: M-sten @ 20-30 mg/daily.
Weeks 1-6: ACS @ 2 caps daily


Weeks 7-10: Nolvadex @ 20 mg/daily.
weeks 7-10: ACS @ 2 caps daily
Weeks 8-11: E-Control @ 3 caps/daily (before bed).

epi-tren I haven't even gotten to know quite well so I'm going to do some reading up on it and find a decent cycle unless you can help on it as well.

BenJie said:

Ok. Here's what I was thinking to do for a cycle. Please throw in any advice or compound that you may seem fit.

Weeks 1-6: M-sten @ 20-30 mg/daily.
Weeks 1-6: ACS @ 2 caps daily


Weeks 7-10: Nolvadex @ 20 mg/daily.
weeks 7-10: ACS @ 2 caps daily
Weeks 8-11: E-Control @ 3 caps/daily (before bed).

epi-tren I haven't even gotten to know quite well so I'm going to do some reading up on it and find a decent cycle unless you can help on it as well.

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Looks great. I personally prefer Clomid to Nolva (just my opinion), but if you already have Nolva in your possession, just use that.

How would I go about dosing clomid and what would be a suitable epi tren cycle? And I know you can not give me a straight answer but what are the expected gains from a msten or epi tren cycle for a first run?

BenJie said:

How would I go about dosing clomid and what would be a suitable epi tren cycle? And I know you can not give me a straight answer but what are the expected gains from a msten or epi tren cycle for a first run?

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50 mg Clomid/day for 30 days will suffice for a cycle like this.

Epi-tren 3 caps/day for 4-6 weeks.

I can't tell you how mich you will "gain" when using any product, as gains are dependent on diet and training. Some druigs are better mass or strength builders, but even the best mass & strength drugs can provide poor gains when one's diet is crap.

I understand Mike and I appreciate the honesty. I feel like it is a newer product because I can't find many logs or I'm just not looking in the right spot. Ok so my last thing to ask is for my cousin. He is trying to start a cycle but he is a year or two younger. He is 18 I think and is trying to start a cycle. He was told that it's not good to start at a young age and I agree from what everyone has told me but he was told if he does a proper pct with a serm that he will be ok if it was a cycle or two.

i know he is a bit younger but he is quite stubborn and I would much rather him not go in blind. I told him the cycle I'm gonna be doing which is the epi tren cycle in place of msten.

BenJie said:

I understand Mike and I appreciate the honesty. I feel like it is a newer product because I can't find many logs or I'm just not looking in the right spot. Ok so my last thing to ask is for my cousin. He is trying to start a cycle but he is a year or two younger. He is 18 I think and is trying to start a cycle. He was told that it's not good to start at a young age and I agree from what everyone has told me but he was told if he does a proper pct with a serm that he will be ok if it was a cycle or two.

i know he is a bit younger but he is quite stubborn and I would much rather him not go in blind. I told him the cycle I'm gonna be doing which is the epi tren cycle in place of msten.

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What is the question?

If he takes a cycle one or maybe twice while he is 18 and uses a proper PCT and cycle support, will he be fine for the most part or no? He does sports like me and is trying to get bigger and stronger for football. I don't want him being totally screwed but I can't help that if he is either way.

BenJie said:

If he takes a cycle one or maybe twice while he is 18 and uses a proper PCT and cycle support, will he be fine for the most part or no? He does sports like me and is trying to get bigger and stronger for football. I don't want him being totally screwed but I can't help that if he is either way.

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Why won't your friend come here and ask his own questions?

He'll be fine, but no one does just 1-2 cycles. I don't know anyone who started cycling as a teenager who did just "one or two" cycles.

It's my cousin and he was asking me for advice and I was like hell I don't know haha. And he is trying to limit his cycles until summer just because he never gets tested during the summer.

"Epi-andro I don't recommend as a 1st cycle simply because it is mostly a hardener and won't give much gains. Halodrol is OK, but again, it is pretty weak compared to the other products I mentioned. Same with Decadrol--poor gains compared to the others...same with 1-test. "

Shoot, and I'm doing Halo/Epi-Andro for my first cycle :'( ... guess there is always next time haha

Benoit23 said:

"Epi-andro I don't recommend as a 1st cycle simply because it is mostly a hardener and won't give much gains. Halodrol is OK, but again, it is pretty weak compared to the other products I mentioned. Same with Decadrol--poor gains compared to the others...same with 1-test. "

Shoot, and I'm doing Halo/Epi-Andro for my first cycle :'( ... guess there is always next time haha

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In your case, you "added" it to another steroid, which is different than running it alone. I don't recommend it be run solo for a 1st cycle when the goal is mass & strength, simply because it does not work very well for those purposes. It is more of a hardener.