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Howarth's Second Cycle! Msten & 4-Andro

Howarth17

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This will be my second cycle, the Iron Mag Labs Msten Rx stack. My first stack was just pure promag. Felt like I accomplished more of a recomp more than anything with that. With this cycle I'm hoping to add a good amount of muscle.

Current Stats:

6'2"
195 pounds
probably around 15% body fat but I'm not sure. Going to get a bod pod test to find out the exact number. Couple years ago I lost around 100 pounds but that all was within the same year, so I'm unsure if what's left on me is skin or still some stubborn fat.


First 4 weeks:
M-Sten: 2 caps daily morning/afternoon
4-Andro: 2 caps daily (should I spread apart)?
Ultra Male Rx - 1 cap daily (does timing matter)
Advanced Cycle Support - 2 caps daily (again timing matter)?

Last 4 weeks:
Ultra Male Rx - 1 cap daily
Advanced Cycle Support Rx - 2 caps daily
E-control Rx - 3 caps daily
SERM - Liquid Tamox : 20/20/20/20

(last time i did 20/20/10/10, but Ebfitness recommended 20 all the way through)

I believe my package should arrive this Tuesday but I might wait until next week to start, think it's a bit odd to start mid-week.


Any tips for training to help me get the most out of this cycle bulking wise? Feel like my arms are my weak point so I really want to get those bigger.
 
Good luck brother. Following you here.
 
This will be my second cycle, the Iron Mag Labs Msten Rx stack. My first stack was just pure promag. Felt like I accomplished more of a recomp more than anything with that. With this cycle I'm hoping to add a good amount of muscle.

Current Stats:

6'2"
195 pounds
probably around 15% body fat but I'm not sure. Going to get a bod pod test to find out the exact number. Couple years ago I lost around 100 pounds but that all was within the same year, so I'm unsure if what's left on me is skin or still some stubborn fat.


First 4 weeks:
M-Sten: 2 caps daily morning/afternoon
4-Andro: 2 caps daily (should I spread apart)?
Ultra Male Rx - 1 cap daily (does timing matter)
Advanced Cycle Support - 2 caps daily (again timing matter)?

Last 4 weeks:
Ultra Male Rx - 1 cap daily
Advanced Cycle Support Rx - 2 caps daily
E-control Rx - 3 caps daily
SERM - Liquid Tamox : 20/20/20/20

(last time i did 20/20/10/10, but Ebfitness recommended 20 all the way through)

I believe my package should arrive this Tuesday but I might wait until next week to start, think it's a bit odd to start mid-week.


Any tips for training to help me get the most out of this cycle bulking wise? Feel like my arms are my weak point so I really want to get those bigger.
Spread your 4-Andro out and take it along with your M-Sten. I personally would rather see 4 caps of 4-Andro, but you can always get more if lethargy kicks in.

You don't need Ultra Male on cycle...only post cycle. 1 bottle of UM is good for two PCTs.

Take your ACS 3-4 hrs separate from your PH doses.

In PCT, remember to spread out your 3 caps of E-Control (am, midday, pm). You could also start it a couple weeks after the UM and SERM so that it will last a couple weeks after the SERM to help prevent any possible estrogen rebound.

Eat and lift heavy and watch the gains happen. :)
 
Spread your 4-Andro out and take it along with your M-Sten. I personally would rather see 4 caps of 4-Andro, but you can always get more if lethargy kicks in.

You don't need Ultra Male on cycle...only post cycle. 1 bottle of UM is good for two PCTs.

Take your ACS 3-4 hrs separate from your PH doses.

In PCT, remember to spread out your 3 caps of E-Control (am, midday, pm). You could also start it a couple weeks after the UM and SERM so that it will last a couple weeks after the SERM to help prevent any possible estrogen rebound.

Eat and lift heavy and watch the gains happen. :)

Thanks for the reply eb! How come the stack on the M-sten webpage suggests taking the UM the first 4 weeks? Also for the ACS do I take both at the same time? Just not the same time as my 4 andro and m sten?
 
Thanks for the reply eb! How come the stack on the M-sten webpage suggests taking the UM the first 4 weeks? Also for the ACS do I take both at the same time? Just not the same time as my 4 andro and m sten?
Everyone here that uses UM just uses it in PCT...and why not get two PCTs out of it?:D You can take both ACS at the same time.
 
Everyone here that uses UM just uses it in PCT...and why not get two PCTs out of it?:D You can take both ACS at the same time.


Maybe be taking the UM during the actual cycle helps with lethargy, instead of just doubling the 4-andro?? Or is that not how it works
 
4 andro during cycle. ..um after
Seee...haha! 4-Andro converts to test, which will improve mood, libido, and combat lethargy. UM is used to recover "natural" test, which is shut down on cycle...hence using it for PCT.
 
Package just arrived this morning! This is going to be the longest six days of my life! Ok, so I am going to run it like this:

First 4 weeks:
m-sten 2 caps daily
4-andro 2 caps daily
ACS 2 caps daily

Last 4 weeks (PCT)
ACS 2 caps daily
E control 3 caps daily (am/midday/pm)
UM 1 cap daily

and then I read somewhere else (I think by Adrenolin) that I should take my SERM and UM prior to bed, correct?

How many weeks after I begin my PCT would you guys suggest starting my E Control to use it to combat any estrogen rebound effects? and then would I still take the e control for a full 4 weeks?
 
Good luck bro, I always took my Nolva/Clomid before sleeping to ward off sides in the day which to me are worse than the ones I have now on DMZ 3.0 which are tolerated better.
 
Good luck bro, I always took my Nolva/Clomid before sleeping to ward off sides in the day which to me are worse than the ones I have now on DMZ 3.0 which are tolerated better.


You had worse sides on M-Sten than SDMZ 3.0?? :(
 
You had worse sides on M-Sten than SDMZ 3.0?? :(
No I was saying worse sides from Clomid/Nolva. Especially Clomid.

Super DMZ 3.0 has Msten in it, 10mg/cap. Sides are tolerated ok, lethargy is present but I'm finishing it, one week left.
 
Oh... had me worried there for a second! What kind of sides did you get from Clomid? I've only ever used Nolva and never really expereienced anything from that.
 
Oh... had me worried there for a second! What kind of sides did you get from Clomid? I've only ever used Nolva and never really expereienced anything from that.
Clomid= panic attacks, edgy, emotional like my wife on rag lol.

All of which I don't suffer from when off so I'll prob do Nolva this time though it has equally affected me.
 
Clomid= panic attacks, edgy, emotional like my wife on rag lol.

All of which I don't suffer from when off so I'll prob do Nolva this time though it has equally affected me.


That doesn't sound too fun!

This just might be OCD of me but do you take all 60 of your capsules? 2 * 28 = 56 so you have 4 capsules left over. DO you Just like increase your dose the last few days or extend by another day?
 
No not fun but has to be done.

30 days of DMZ 3.0 so 2 caps/day from start to finish. Have a bottle of Msten but debating to extend cycle 1-2 weeks or not using just that. Next cycle (8-10 weeks after this one ends) will be with the 4 andro that ebfitness recommended to combat lethargy.
 
No not fun but has to be done.

30 days of DMZ 3.0 so 2 caps/day from start to finish. Have a bottle of Msten but debating to extend cycle 1-2 weeks or not using just that. Next cycle (8-10 weeks after this one ends) will be with the 4 andro that ebfitness recommended to combat lethargy.


ohhh. I've always just done like 4 actual weeks (28 days).
 
Package just arrived this morning! This is going to be the longest six days of my life! Ok, so I am going to run it like this:

First 4 weeks:
m-sten 2 caps daily
4-andro 2 caps daily
ACS 2 caps daily

Last 4 weeks (PCT)
ACS 2 caps daily
E control 3 caps daily (am/midday/pm)
UM 1 cap daily

and then I read somewhere else (I think by Adrenolin) that I should take my SERM and UM prior to bed, correct?

How many weeks after I begin my PCT would you guys suggest starting my E Control to use it to combat any estrogen rebound effects? and then would I still take the e control for a full 4 weeks?
You can start E-Control 2 weeks in to PCT, so that it will last 2 weeks after your serm.
 
Ok, so how does this look? Want to make sure I have everything down.

Day 1-30
M-Sten 2 caps
4-Andro 2 caps
ACS 2 caps

Day 31-60
ACS 2 caps
UM 1 cap
Nolva 1ml/20mg

Day 46-75? - (If I'm going to do the E-control extending past regular PCT will that be all I'm taking then, like just E control for an extra 2 weeks?
E-Control 3 caps daily
 
Ok, so how does this look? Want to make sure I have everything down.

Day 1-30
M-Sten 2 caps
4-Andro 2 caps
ACS 2 caps

Day 31-60
ACS 2 caps
UM 1 cap
Nolva 1ml/20mg

Day 46-75? - (If I'm going to do the E-control extending past regular PCT will that be all I'm taking then, like just E control for an extra 2 weeks?
E-Control 3 caps daily
Correct
 
So is today day 1 howarth?

No I haven't started yet... but I'm debating weather or not I should start tomorrow. I have a bit of a cold so I've taking some DayQuil/NyQuil and trying to keep my weight up, feel like whenever I get sick I tend to lose a bit of weight. Hopefully this cold will be gone soon though. Also thanks eb
 
No I haven't started yet... but I'm debating weather or not I should start tomorrow. I have a bit of a cold so I've taking some DayQuil/NyQuil and trying to keep my weight up, feel like whenever I get sick I tend to lose a bit of weight. Hopefully this cold will be gone soon though. Also thanks eb
No prob
 

hey eb, I usually work first thing in the morning. Should I take my m sten and 4 andro after I workout with breakfast? Says to take with food on the back of the bottle
 
hey eb, I usually work first thing in the morning. Should I take my m sten and 4 andro after I workout with breakfast? Says to take with food on the back of the bottle

I am not EB... but WHAT I WOULD DO is have a small whey shake prior to training(30ish min) and down them then... Then blast the weights...

thats what I would do, but EB may have a different idea...
 
hey eb, I usually work first thing in the morning. Should I take my m sten and 4 andro after I workout with breakfast? Says to take with food on the back of the bottle

I am not EB... but WHAT I WOULD DO is have a small whey shake prior to training(30ish min) and down them then... Then blast the weights...

thats what I would do, but EB may have a different idea...
Eh...there's several things to consider here, but it will largely come down to personal preference. PHs do absorb better with food, especially fats, so if you were to have a shake before working out, you may want to add a little peanut butter, olive oil, or for less calories..fish oil. Now, about the whey, the only prob with whey is it spikes blood sugar...which would plummet around a half hr after ingesting..possibly making you a little tired during your workout. I would prefer a whey/casein mix...something to kick in fast (whey), and something to burn slowly during the workout (casein). Check out IML's Complete Protein.

Now, as far as the best time to take your PH, some say the PH gives them energy pre-wokout, but then we have the issue of taking it with the proper meal before working out. At the end of the day, it really just matters that you take your PHs around the same time every day to maintain steady blood levels...that also helps to avoid possible sides.

Soooo, if your best option is to just take your PHs with a meal after training each day, go for it...you'll be fine. Sorry for the novel, LOL!
 
Day 1...

So guys today was day 1. Worked out first thing in the morning at 6:30 or so... did legs

Squats: barx10, 135x10, 185x8, 205x5, 135x10
Leg Press: 4 plates 15 reps, 6 plates, 12 reps, 8 plates 8 reps, 4 plates 15 reps
Walking DB Lunges: 3 sets with 35# 10 steps each way
Leg Extensions: 100x15, 130x 15, 150x15, 170x12
Str8 Legged Deadlifts: 95x10, 115x10, 135x10, 135x10
Lying Leg curls: 90x10, 90x10, 90x10, 90x10
"Glute Machine 'kind of like kick your leg back and up'" 90x10, 90x10, 90x10, 90x10
Seated Calf raise: 90x25, 90x25, 90x25, 90x25
Standing Calf raise: 130x25, 130x25, 150x25, 150x25

Legs felt pretty good and worked but after a few hours they were back like normal again. Hopefully I worked them good enough. Also riding my bike everywhere on campus so hopefully that will help out as well.

Took my m-sten and 4-andro after I worked out with breakfast at 8:30. Took my ACS at 12:30 pm.. and my second dosing of m sten and 4 andro at 8:30 pm. Was kind sleepy throughout the day but that's just cause I didn't get a lot of sleep. Kind of feeling upbeat a little, but that just may be from the increased eating I've been doing :)

Not surve I've been eating enough since I've been eating rather clean lately. I've eaten about 7 chicken breasts today and 4 eggs and some scrambled for breakfast along with some yogurt. Also had 2 ham and turkey sandwiches. Going to try to make 1 more trip down to the cafe before I call it a night. Want to get the most out of this cycle I can!
 
So guys today was day 1. Worked out first thing in the morning at 6:30 or so... did legs

Squats: barx10, 135x10, 185x8, 205x5, 135x10
Leg Press: 4 plates 15 reps, 6 plates, 12 reps, 8 plates 8 reps, 4 plates 15 reps
Walking DB Lunges: 3 sets with 35# 10 steps each way
Leg Extensions: 100x15, 130x 15, 150x15, 170x12
Str8 Legged Deadlifts: 95x10, 115x10, 135x10, 135x10
Lying Leg curls: 90x10, 90x10, 90x10, 90x10
"Glute Machine 'kind of like kick your leg back and up'" 90x10, 90x10, 90x10, 90x10
Seated Calf raise: 90x25, 90x25, 90x25, 90x25
Standing Calf raise: 130x25, 130x25, 150x25, 150x25

Legs felt pretty good and worked but after a few hours they were back like normal again. Hopefully I worked them good enough. Also riding my bike everywhere on campus so hopefully that will help out as well.

Took my m-sten and 4-andro after I worked out with breakfast at 8:30. Took my ACS at 12:30 pm.. and my second dosing of m sten and 4 andro at 8:30 pm. Was kind sleepy throughout the day but that's just cause I didn't get a lot of sleep. Kind of feeling upbeat a little, but that just may be from the increased eating I've been doing :)

Not surve I've been eating enough since I've been eating rather clean lately. I've eaten about 7 chicken breasts today and 4 eggs and some scrambled for breakfast along with some yogurt. Also had 2 ham and turkey sandwiches. Going to try to make 1 more trip down to the cafe before I call it a night. Want to get the most out of this cycle I can!
Yup, pound those calories! Lots of meat and eggs will be perfect for the cals and protein.
 
Day 2

Did shoulders/traps today. Had the volume pretty high, but I'm reading conflicting information on how I should train. One article said you should train with pretty high volume while on cycle and then once you hit PCT you should switch to lower volume and up the weights. Anyway heres what I did today:

Military press: 45x20, 65x20, 85x10, 95x8, 65x10


Hammer Shoulder: 60x15, 80x15, 100x12, 150x8, 60x20


Side lateral: 15x15, 20x15, 25x10, 25x10, 20x15


DB front raise: 15x15, 15x15, 20x10


Upright row: barx15, 65x15, 85x15, 95x13, 115x8,


Face pull: 65x20, 80x15, 110x12, 125x10, 95x10


Reverse peck deck: 70x15, 100x11, 100x12, 115x9, 130x8


Plate shrugs: 45x20, 45x20, 45x15


Barbell shrug: 135x10, 135x10, 135x10

Gonna head to the convenience store to get some protein bars to snack on tonight.


 
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