Epi-Andro Cutting Questions

[GetLifted]

I've been doing research on PH use and was led to these forums. For use as a first time cycle I was interested in epi-andro and either 1-andro or 4-andro.

Weeks 1-4 Epi-Andro(6 caps), 1-Andro (6 caps), Anabolic Matrix (2 caps)
Weeks 5-8 Anabolic Matrix (2 caps), E- Control (2 caps)

Anabolic Matrix was added to go with 1-Andro to prevent sexual side effects, which I don't think would be necessary if 4-andro were to be used in place. Does it make a difference as far as taking all pills together in AM vs split dosing? Would there be a benefit of doing 4-6 weeks of Epi-Andro + Osta then 4 weeks of E-control instead since it would be primarily for fat loss?

 

[ebfitness]

If the goal is fat loss, I'd just stack Epi-Andro (4 caps daily) and Osta (3 caps daily)...followed by proper PCT. I feel that's a reasonable first cycle that will produce results, especially if you're training hard and eating in a caloric deficit.

 

[GetLifted]

If the goal is fat loss, I'd just stack Epi-Andro (4 caps daily) and Osta (3 caps daily)...followed by proper PCT. I feel that's a reasonable first cycle that will produce results, especially if you're training hard and eating in a caloric deficit.

I should be able to run this for 4-6 weeks followed by 2-4 weeks of E-control (3 caps daily) correct? I think I've read some people take all together (epiandro and osta in AM for 4-6 weeks, then E-Control every evening before bed for 2-4 weeks) or do I need to split throughout the day?
Hoping this should all go together for a nice cut - I'm hoping to drop to about 150-155 (less is fine too as long as I can maintain my strength/size).

For training right now I'm at 5-6 days heavy lifting (20 minutes cardio after workouts). I do crossfit for an additional cardio/metabolic training workout 2 days a week, and the past week I've been experimenting with fasted cardio (usually at around 8 hours). Calorie intake currently is at 1700 calories a day which I think should be in a small deficit (5'6" 165 lbs). Supporting supplements:

Advanced Cycle Support (for full 8-10 weeks 2 caps at bedtime)
C4 Ripped (pre workout I have laying around the house)
Scorch'd (fat burner developed I'm considering adding to the mix- taken first thing in AM. I may spread apart from PH just in case)- product info here http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-icRosw8sHnI/VS5Zm2xFisI/AAAAAAAABvc/str3fRuidmM/s1600/Scorch.jpg

 

[WesleyInman]

Exactly..clean up diet, add cardio, decrease rest periods during sets and increase rep ranges..and this stuff is magic.

 

[GetLifted]

Exactly..clean up diet, add cardio, decrease rest periods during sets and increase rep ranges..and this stuff is magic.

If the goal is fat loss, I'd just stack Epi-Andro (4 caps daily) and Osta (3 caps daily)...followed by proper PCT. I feel that's a reasonable first cycle that will produce results, especially if you're training hard and eating in a caloric deficit.

Thanks guys. I just bought a few bottles to run this later this month for 6 weeks, then e-control for 4-6 weeks after. As far as taking these, can they be dosed all at once (i.e. epiandro 4 caps first thing in am and osta 3 caps in am) or do I need to split in twice/three times a day dosing?

 

[ebfitness]

Thanks guys. I just bought a few bottles to run this later this month for 6 weeks, then e-control for 4-6 weeks after. As far as taking these, can they be dosed all at once (i.e. epiandro 4 caps first thing in am and osta 3 caps in am) or do I need to split in twice/three times a day dosing?

Probably best to split the Epi-Andro doses breakfast and dinner (I've seen the half life listed as anywhere fro 6-12 hrs depending which source you check). Osta has a 24 hr half life so it can be taken all at once. Btw, I would beef up that PCT a bit; at least add 1 cap of Ultra Male daily for 30 days along with 3 caps E-Control (breakfast, lunch, dinner dosing) if you're not using a SERM for PCT.

 

[GetLifted]

Probably best to split the Epi-Andro doses breakfast and dinner (I've seen the half life listed as anywhere fro 6-12 hrs depending which source you check). Osta has a 24 hr half life so it can be taken all at once. Btw, I would beef up that PCT a bit; at least add 1 cap of Ultra Male daily for 30 days along with 3 caps E-Control (breakfast, lunch, dinner dosing) if you're not using a SERM for PCT.

EDIT: I found this PCT listed on the stickies.

Weeks 1 - 4
Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) 1mL (20mg) prior to bed + Ultra Male 1 cap prior to bed
Weeks 4 - 6
E-Control 3 caps prior to bed

If running a 6 week cycle, is it essential to have an equivalent 6 weeks PCT? I feel as if I've seen 30 day cycles run in the past for about this same amount of time. In which case I'd think to run the same setup and do 2 weeks + 2 weeks of the above? If so, I can look into picking up before conducting research on this.

 

[GetLifted]

If it's better to run the full 6 weeks as listed above, that's fine too I'll have both shortly.

 

[ebfitness]

If it's better to run the full 6 weeks as listed above, that's fine too I'll have both shortly.

It's not that you HAVE to run a 6 week PCT, it's just that it's beneficial to let E-Control run at least two weeks after the SERM to prevent estrogen rebound. Plus, there's absolutely nothing wrong with extra recovery time.

 

[GetLifted]

It's not that you HAVE to run a 6 week PCT, it's just that it's beneficial to let E-Control run at least two weeks after the SERM to prevent estrogen rebound. Plus, there's absolutely nothing wrong with extra recovery time.

Ah got it. Makes sense! I never considered this. I've actually only used SERM in the past because that's what I had available back then. I've got both now so definitely won't complain about the extra recovery time as long as it helps maintain what I've worked towards.

Also - an unrelated question to cycle. With diet being an important factor to achieving and maintaining ideal results, how much will alcohol intake effect maintaining results? My question wouldn't be for the ON part of the cycle, so much as PCT. My goal is to at least appear as if nothing has changed throughout my cycle (GF unaware of cycle which is why I picked a stack that won't negatively impact libido). I'm delaying my start date to avoid drinking AT ALL during the time period I'd be ON, however, I'll likely be taking the GF out for 2 weekends in July (I believe this would be weekends 6/7) which falls during PCT. I'll still be on advanced cycle support so liver toxicity shouldn't be so much of an issue, and I'll be doing shots only to minimize wasted calories.

 

[ebfitness]

Ah got it. Makes sense! I never considered this. I've actually only used SERM in the past because that's what I had available back then. I've got both now so definitely won't complain about the extra recovery time as long as it helps maintain what I've worked towards.

Also - an unrelated question to cycle. With diet being an important factor to achieving and maintaining ideal results, how much will alcohol intake effect maintaining results? My question wouldn't be for the ON part of the cycle, so much as PCT. My goal is to at least appear as if nothing has changed throughout my cycle (GF unaware of cycle which is why I picked a stack that won't negatively impact libido). I'm delaying my start date to avoid drinking AT ALL during the time period I'd be ON, however, I'll likely be taking the GF out for 2 weekends in July (I believe this would be weekends 6/7) which falls during PCT. I'll still be on advanced cycle support so liver toxicity shouldn't be so much of an issue, and I'll be doing shots only to minimize wasted calories.

A couple drinks on a couple weekends aren't gonna make or break you.

 

[GetLifted]

A couple drinks on a couple weekends aren't gonna make or break you.

LOL I bartend occasionally and have a full traveling wet bar. It's more like Friday/Saturday I wind up taking 10+ drinks depending on if there's a large enough event and if I'm hosting (when I host, guests usually ask me to take shots with them - though I fake a few here and there). Memorial Day Weekend I will be entertaining a trip to L.A. so I'm delaying starting for a few weeks just in case. Weeks 6 I'll be in Chicago and week 7 is the GF's bday but those weekends probably won't be more than a few drinks since I'll be doing more babysitting and entertaining the GF.

 

[GetLifted]

If the goal is fat loss, I'd just stack Epi-Andro (4 caps daily) and Osta (3 caps daily)...followed by proper PCT.

Would there be any additional risk vs benefit to adding clen 2 weeks on 2 weeks off to this stack? Likely at a dose of 40 mcg. Just happened to notice it on IMR and was curious - I've heard it works well.

 

[ebfitness]

Would there be any additional risk vs benefit to adding clen 2 weeks on 2 weeks off to this stack? Likely at a dose of 40 mcg. Just happened to notice it on IMR and was curious - I've heard it works well.

Just keep an eye on blood pressure. Discount Code: ebfitness15

 

[Kellson]

I have a probably stupid follow up question to this, but I am in a similar boat to GetLifted. How bad is it to have a couple drinks for a four day period while ON? I am meeting my wife and coming home for leave from a deployment, and I don't want her to get freaked out. When I say a couple drinks, I mean no more than 1 or two beers, and only for about a 3 or four day period.

 

[WesleyInman]

I have a probably stupid follow up question to this, but I am in a similar boat to GetLifted. How bad is it to have a couple drinks for a four day period while ON? I am meeting my wife and coming home for leave from a deployment, and I don't want her to get freaked out. When I say a couple drinks, I mean no more than 1 or two beers, and only for about a 3 or four day period.

DHEA derivatives are very mild...so in theory you should be absolutely fine.

Just remember, anytime you put anything in your body that is not naturally occurring, there is a risk. Sometimes small, sometimes big.

Alcohol carries far more stress to the liver then a DHEA derivative ever will. Combing orals and alcohol of any sort is never the best idea, but depending on the oral pill you are using will determine toxicity. Something like ibuprofen for example, or tylenol, is far worse for your stomach and kidneys and liver then even something like 4-andro or epi andro.

There is no comparison. Run your liver/organ supports and stay hydrated. Enjoy your time back

 

[ebfitness]

DHEA derivatives are very mild...so in theory you should be absolutely fine.

Just remember, anytime you put anything in your body that is not naturally occurring, there is a risk. Sometimes small, sometimes big.

Alcohol carries far more stress to the liver then a DHEA derivative ever will. Combing orals and alcohol of any sort is never the best idea, but depending on the oral pill you are using will determine toxicity. Something like ibuprofen for example, or tylenol, is far worse for your stomach and kidneys and liver then even something like 4-andro or epi andro.

There is no comparison. Run your liver/organ supports and stay hydrated. Enjoy your time back

Yup, methylated PHs, painkillers, and alcohol definitely don't mix...I'm not too concerned while running Andros, but I still try not to go nuts, lol

 

[GetLifted]

I second all of their statements. Honestly, I'm nearing the end of my cycle. I had a big week with my gf and don't recommend doing this. I didn't feel any ill experiences from it, but it definitely impacted muscle definition and was overall counter productive. No change in weight from it though just felt like I wound up regretting it. I will say touch, with the added calories I upped my deadlift PR to 395 lbs and was able to rep out 95 lbs on barbell curl rather comfortably.

 

[Kellson]

Thanks for the answer. One more (set) of questions. For the post cycle what do you recommend? I can see the stuff on this site for "on cycle" but not post. I think I read somewhere that novaldex is recommended, but is that legal? Being in the Army, I have to stay very clean. Thanks for the help.

 

[Kellson]

GetLifted, just curious, how much would you say you drank, and how counterproductive was it? I thought you were having your week during the post cycle. Is that right?

 

[ebfitness]

Thanks for the answer. One more (set) of questions. For the post cycle what do you recommend? I can see the stuff on this site for "on cycle" but not post. I think I read somewhere that novaldex is recommended, but is that legal? Being in the Army, I have to stay very clean. Thanks for the help.

1 cap daily of Ultra Male and 3 caps daily of E-Control ( doses spread out ) for 30 days is a good PCT if you're not using a SERM.

 

[Kellson]

Last questions

Okay last questions. Does epi andro have any negative sexual side effects while on? Can you safely take ED medications? If you stack epi with one of the thermogenics are there any bad interactions?

 

[ebfitness]

Okay last questions. Does epi andro have any negative sexual side effects while on? Can you safely take ED medications? If you stack epi with one of the thermogenics are there any bad interactions?

Good to go on all of the above, haha

 

[GetLifted]

GetLifted, just curious, how much would you say you drank, and how counterproductive was it? I thought you were having your week during the post cycle. Is that right?

Counterproductive in the sense that (for me) it hurt the bit of abdominal definition I'd started to obtain over the previous 4/5 weeks. Everything else was fine. I had planned on setting my week to go out of town during PCT but things came up. It's the summer time and I live (and date) in an area where it's usually cold for a while. Once the summer hits my schedule gets much more erratic between going out of town and out to dinner/weddings/bartending etc. I'd still say that the overall strength gains and definition is there, but maybe 60-75% of what it could have been. Even now as I cut back down on the days I'm training (2/3 days vs 5/6 days in the beginning) I still get comments on how I went from being much smaller to now looking like an action figure.

I'm pretty pleased considering the circumstances and with this being my first PH cycle. I learned from it and I'm looking forward to the next cycle. I'll be working night shift more often so mostly working out and sleeping for 4-6 weeks. I'll be doing 3 caps of M-Sten and either EpiAndro (@6 caps since this is where it started working for me) or maybe test if I find some. I liked the results from running test in the past much better compared to my results on this current stack though they're fairly close.