M-Sten First Time Cycle

[subaruski]

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[TD="class: alt1, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]28 years old, have been lifting for two years. 205lbs around 15% bf.

Looking at MSten for first oral cycle. Plan on using IronMagLabs stack + Clomid in PCT. Will be starting Cycle Support one week prior to begin cycle.

[FONT=&quot]Weeks 1-4
M-STEN Rx - 2 caps daily in am/pm
4-Andro Rx - 2 caps daily in am/pm
Ultra Male Rx - 1 cap daily in am
Advanced cycle Support Rx - 2 caps daily in am/pm

Weeks 5-8
Ultra Male Rx - 1 cap daily in am
Advanced cycle Support Rx - 2 caps daily in am/pm
E-Control Rx - 3 caps daily in pm
Clomid - 1ml daily in pm
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Goal is to add around 10 lbs and lean out 3-4% bf at same time. Any input would be appreciated especially on when to take during the day. Ok to take entire stack once in AM and once in PM or should I space some things out through the day?
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[Adrenolin]

Awesome brother, welcome to the ironmaglabs forums. I apologize that your thread was missed. I always try to keep things simple, not to mention there's no significant difference in dosing either way... I take all hormones upon waking and supports and pct supps prior to bed.

you may find Epi andro at 4 caps for 8wks stacked with 6wks halo at 3 caps would produce better results in terms of your goals, everything else looks good, glad to see you're using a serm.

 

[subaruski]

Well just a little update here. I'm utterly baffled by my lack of progress with Msten. Almost every review or log I've read has raved about this product.

I'm about half way through week 3 of the cycle listed in my first post and I have not gained a single pound. Strength gains have been extremely marginal if at all. When I started my body fat was around 14-15% and I feel that it's still sitting around that general area. Maybe I've leaned out a bit but it's definitely not very noticeable.

What am I missing here? I've been drinking around 1-1/2 gallons of water a day and eating around 3500 calories. All clean foods of course.

 

[Hendrix91]

Well just a little update here. I'm utterly baffled by my lack of progress with Msten. Almost every review or log I've read has raved about this product.

I'm about half way through week 3 of the cycle listed in my first post and I have not gained a single pound. Strength gains have been extremely marginal if at all. When I started my body fat was around 14-15% and I feel that it's still sitting around that general area. Maybe I've leaned out a bit but it's definitely not very noticeable.

What am I missing here? I've been drinking around 1-1/2 gallons of water a day and eating around 3500 calories. All clean foods of course.

Well you're cycle's almost over now but.. you're 205 lbs, and are being aided by AAS. You should be eating more than 3500 calories. That's around what I'd bulk on @170lbs, maybe even more.

 

[Adrenolin]

3,500 should be plenty. Your metabolism changes while on anabolics, it uses calories much more efficiently. You will be able to gain muscle mass even whilst having your calories at your normal maintenance level or just slightly above.

OP can you please post your 3500 calorie diet and training regiment, as well as your standard for strength progression (what makes you decide to increase the weight)

 

[subaruski]

As far as strength routine I've been following AllPro's routine from BodyBuilding.com

Basic outline is Heavy,Med,Light day while increasing reps each week. Program works in cycles of 5 weeks going from 8 reps increasing to 12. If you are able to achieve 12 reps on week 5 you increase the weight by 10% for the next cycle. Work out includes warm ups and 2 work sets of the following: bench, squat, bent row, overhead press, stiff leg dead lift, curls, calf raises.

I started M-sten while entering 10 rep week. Previous cycle I had struggled reaching my 12 rep goal so I was hoping M-sten would provide the increase in strength to hit that 12 rep goal. I felt an increase in recovery time but still was not quite able to hit that 12 rep goal. Was damn close though.

Have been going through a massive amount of stress in work and personal life that kind of hit right at the start of taking msten. Perfect timing right... I'm guessing that this has really affected my strength gains in a negative way.

Starting PCT tomorrow.

Is it ok to do Econtrol and Clomid at same time as i noted in my first post? I have seen a few logs of people separating them doing the clomid week 5-7 and econtrol week 8-10.

Also seen logs of people tapering clomid slowly down weeks 5-8. Any reason to do this?

 

[Hendrix91]

As far as strength routine I've been following AllPro's routine from BodyBuilding.com

Basic outline is Heavy,Med,Light day while increasing reps each week. Program works in cycles of 5 weeks going from 8 reps increasing to 12. If you are able to achieve 12 reps on week 5 you increase the weight by 10% for the next cycle. Work out includes warm ups and 2 work sets of the following: bench, squat, bent row, overhead press, stiff leg dead lift, curls, calf raises.

I started M-sten while entering 10 rep week. Previous cycle I had struggled reaching my 12 rep goal so I was hoping M-sten would provide the increase in strength to hit that 12 rep goal. I felt an increase in recovery time but still was not quite able to hit that 12 rep goal. Was damn close though.

Have been going through a massive amount of stress in work and personal life that kind of hit right at the start of taking msten. Perfect timing right... I'm guessing that this has really affected my strength gains in a negative way.

Starting PCT tomorrow.

Is it ok to do Econtrol and Clomid at same time as i noted in my first post? I have seen a few logs of people separating them doing the clomid week 5-7 and econtrol week 8-10.

Also seen logs of people tapering clomid slowly down weeks 5-8. Any reason to do this?

The reason for e-control after is to prevent estrogen rebound, I would run it after the clomid. Also, what are your lifts at? That's more of a beginner program

 

[subaruski]

The reason for e-control after is to prevent estrogen rebound, I would run it after the clomid. Also, what are your lifts at? That's more of a beginner program

Can you specify what you mean by "after clomid"? IE run clomid 1ML daily for a certain number of weeks and then switch to 3 tablets of E-control daily for an additional number of weeks?

Last 100% heavy sets and performance in last AllPro cycle were as follows:
Squat: 235 (passed)
Bench: 185 (failed on 2nd set at 12th rep)
Bent Row: 130 (failed on 2nd set at 12th rep)
Overhead Press: 90 (failed on 2nd set at 11th rep)
StiffLeg Deadlift: 245 (passed)
Curl: 95 (passed)

 

[Adrenolin]

Starting PCT tomorrow.

Is it ok to do Econtrol and Clomid at same time as i noted in my first post? I have seen a few logs of people separating them doing the clomid week 5-7 and econtrol week 8-10.

Also seen logs of people tapering clomid slowly down weeks 5-8. Any reason to do this?

Can you specify what you mean by "after clomid"? IE run clomid 1ML daily for a certain number of weeks and then switch to 3 tablets of E-control daily for an additional number of weeks?

Not specifically AFTER but bridged from it. I recommend this way as a SERM can so rapidly raise testosterone levels leaving them susceptible to aromatizing in mass amounts post PCT (aka estrogen rebound). This transition of hormones could lead do delayed post PCT gynecomastia if not treated with a mild AI such as E-Control. It's not necessary nor recommended to taper the dose of clomid. Keep it at a steady intake.

See here

PCT
Weeks 1 - 4
Clomid
50mg prior to bed

Advanced Cycle Support
3 caps prior to bed

Weeks 4 - 6
E-Control
3 caps prior to bed

Advanced Cycle Support
3 caps prior to bed

 

[subaruski]

What about the UltraMale? Is that still needed?

See here

PCT
Weeks 1 - 4
Clomid
50mg prior to bed

Advanced Cycle Support
3 caps prior to bed

Weeks 4 - 6
E-Control
3 caps prior to bed

Advanced Cycle Support
3 caps prior to bed

 

[Adrenolin]

What about the UltraMale? Is that still needed?

Yes, that can be included. 1 cap per day. I was just posting an example to show how the AI and SERM are bridged in week 4.

 

[subaruski]

Clomid for 3 weeks and then E-Control for 3 weeks or is it 4 weeks of each?

Adrenolin, any theories on my poor results? Could stress of effected things that much? Was I following a bad strength routine?

 

[Adrenolin]

Clomid for 3 weeks and then E-Control for 3 weeks or is it 4 weeks of each?

Adrenolin, any theories on my poor results? Could stress of effected things that much? Was I following a bad strength routine?

PCT
Weeks 1 - 4
Clomid 40mg directly prior to bed

Advanced Cycle Support
3 caps prior to bed

Ultra Male (if you want to include it)
1 cap prior to bed

Weeks 4 - 6
E-Control
3 caps prior to bed

Advanced Cycle Support
3 caps prior to bed

Ultra Male (if you want to include it)
1 cap prior to bed


Can you please post your diet? And I would have used 5x5 over your AllPro routine. Every time I can get at least 15 reps in the first 3 sets, I up the weight by 2.5 - 5lbs maximum the following workout session. And, I would hit full body workouts every other day.


Stress has made me drop 80lbs in a year in the past, I was a big sad panda becoming a small sad panda.. lol but I don't know what you're going through, so I can't really say that stress absolutely destroyed your entire cycle, but it certainly could have been a factor