4-Andro RX Question

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jbingham

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Getting set to run 1-DHEA (Alpha Mass) with 4-Andro RX.

I have a cycle support and was going to run an OTC PCT with DAA at the end for 4 weeks. I can't find a ton of info about PCT for 4-Andro. I'm sure it exists but using the search function give me 13+ pages of results.

Do I need a SERM for 4-Andro? Was hoping to do a 6 week cycle of both and then move into PCT with Sup3R and DAA.

Any help is appreciated! Done a lot of reading but still very new at this.
 
You never actually need a serm, but they assist in making the recovery as quick as possible.

With the Andros, you will get shut down eventually if you run high doses for extended time frames. In my experience it hasn't been a must to use a serm in pct from a dhea based cycle but it couldn't hurt. The shutdown, if any, is generally mild.

Keep in mind that most users of oral cycles rely on serms to bring natural test levels back quickly so on cycle gains will be preserved.
 
chez said:
You never actually need a serm, but they assist in making the recovery as quick as possible.

With the Andros, you will get shut down eventually if you run high doses for extended time frames. In my experience it hasn't been a must to use a serm in pct from a dhea based cycle but it couldn't hurt. The shutdown, if any, is generally mild.

Keep in mind that most users of oral cycles rely on serms to bring natural test levels back quickly so on cycle gains will be preserved.
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^ This.
 
Thanks.... a couple more questions.

1.Among the different SERMS, how do you determine which is the best for recovery from your stack?
2. Because of the increase in test conversion, would it be beneficial to take an OTC AI like Triazole with this stack?
3. If I decide to take an OTC PCT rather than a SERM, would it be beneficial to start the DAA 3-5 days before my cycle ends because DAA takes a few days to start working? I have 2 bottles.

Thanks again for the help above
 
1.Among the different SERMS, how do you determine which is the best for recovery from your stack?

The top three are Clomid, Nolva & Torem. They all will work, but they have different mechanisms of action and have different side effects. I like Tamoxifen/Nolva the best of all three, but they will all work. I find clomid to have some sides that i dont care for, Torem works well but Nolva has been the most consistent and virtually side free SERM in my experience.
2. Because of the increase in test conversion, would it be beneficial to take an OTC AI like Triazole with this stack?

No need to run an AI with this stack. Its never a bad idea to have one on hand, but I wouldnt just automatically run one. The E-Control is a good place to start, use during PCT, as directed. If you are especialy gyno prone, look into exemestane or letro to counter any rebound estrogen that may occur late into PCT.

3. If I decide to take an OTC PCT rather than a SERM, would it be beneficial to start the DAA 3-5 days before my cycle ends because DAA takes a few days to start working? I have 2 bottles.

I honestly couldnt tell you if this would work better or not, but I would do just that. I would start taking a few days before hand. But like I said, I cant back up that its absolutley beneficial, but it seems logical. As far as using these products instead of a serm, well you will find the recovery time to be very long, and you may lose all the gains you made on cycle. This is the reason people take serms, to make sure the lapse in time of no test in your system to be as short as possible.
 
Thanks again for the info.... Which of the SERMS would you recommend for a DHEA based stack?

Should I take anything else with the SERM like DAA or do I just sit back and let the SERM do it's thing?
 
Once again, a SERM is not a necessary component, especially for a strictly DHEA based cycle, but as I said if your going to go that route, then Tamoxifen is a good bet. It works well at a 20/20/10/10 dosing scheme.

Anything else you add to the SERM will aid the recovery of your natural test levels. The SERM alone will handle this task just fine, but additional test boosters will help the speed at which this happens.
 
Just to clairfy, you don't recommend any sort of AI during the cycle, even with 4-Andro unless I start to experience symptoms.

Any need to taper off of DAA or Erase or Sup3r during my PCT if I'm using Nolva?

Also, I hope this isn't a policy violation, but can you recommend reputible place that sells "research chemicals" in pill form? Thanks!
 
How much of the 4-Andro should I be taking. Directions say 1-2 capsules 2x a day. I'm taking 3x of the Alpha Mass twice a day. Was planning to take 1x 4-Andro twice a day until week 3 and then increase to 2x a twice a day until the end of the run. My logic is that the Alpha mass is known to take a few weeks to kick in and get going. Also was thinking this would be a little easier on my system since this is my first PH run. I'm 6'4/198. Thoughts? Thanks!
 
jbingham said:
How much of the 4-Andro should I be taking. Directions say 1-2 capsules 2x a day. I'm taking 3x of the Alpha Mass twice a day. Was planning to take 1x 4-Andro twice a day until week 3 and then increase to 2x a twice a day until the end of the run. My logic is that the Alpha mass is known to take a few weeks to kick in and get going. Also was thinking this would be a little easier on my system since this is my first PH run. I'm 6'4/198. Thoughts? Thanks!
Click to expand...
Personally, I always take 4 caps daily of ANY of our Andro products.
 
Quick question. I'm about a week in on my cycle. Taking 4x Andro 4 rx and 6 Alpha mass daily. Woke up this morning with sightly itchy nipples. It was very slight and I didn't notice it later in the day. Nips have been hard quite a bit. Should I be thinking about an OTC AI or something stronger.... or is this a common thing? 1st cycle so I can't tell you if I ll sensitive to estrogen conversion or not. As always, any guidance is helpful. Besides this and the 1 day I took my 2nd dose without food and felt cracked out, everything feels good!
 
Don't worry too much about itchy/hard nipples. Worry when you feel something hard behind your nipple. And for gods sake don't play with them!! This will aggrevate the situation if there is one. If you want to play it safe, look into acquiring some exemestane.
 
Got it.... Going to grab my SERM today (Nolva) and Exemstane just to be safe in case something goes sideways. I talked myself into getting a SERM to get everything rebooted as quickly as possible and trying to keep my gains. Thanks for all your help!
 
Was wondering if you could point me to any good dietary resources during a PH cycle? I'm normally about 2600 calories, 190-200 G Protein/day. 6'4/200 LBS, 33 YO.... Just wondering how my diet should change. So far, I'm hitting more protein shakes, 2 scopes of Casein before bed. Always hit a ON Pro Complex Gainer shake after the gym, diet high in protein... Are they specific marco numbers I should be shooting for?
 
Looking to get "Slow Bulk" results quickly ;) I'm at about 11-12% BF right now... Would love to drop a little BF and gain as much pure muscle as possible. I used intermittent fasting for a few months to drop from 15-16% to where I am now and then stopped last week when I started this cycle.
 
Another question. My balls are starting to ache a little... just a basic dull ache. Wondering if this is normal on something like 4-ad or if it's something I should be concerned about. Just started this morning. Not painful but aching and mildly uncomfortable. No other noticeable issues.
 
jbingham said:
Another question. My balls are starting to ache a little... just a basic dull ache. Wondering if this is normal on something like 4-ad or if it's something I should be concerned about. Just started this morning. Not painful but aching and mildly uncomfortable. No other noticeable issues.
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I get it on pretty much any anabolic; it's normal.
 
Wanted to post a quick update to everyone that's helped me so far. I'm coming to the end of a 30 day cycle of 4-Andro and Alpha Mass (1-DHEA) I wish I would have bought another 30 day supply of 4-Andro since I have plenty of Alpha Mass left. I guess a nice 30 Day cycle is good for a beginner.

Definately noticed more gains the last week...strength is through the roof as is the fat loss and muscle gains. Went from 197 to 207 during this, and added a little fat at 1st (little too ambitious in the beginning with calories) but it's been a good run. I'll be starting my PCT (Sup3r PCT) on Friday with Activate Extreme, DAA as well. I have a SERM on hand but have decided I'm not going to run it unless I need it (what symptoms should I look out for?)

I'll also be re-starting creatine usage and have been on some L-Car to help with Fat loss during the last week or two.

This has been a killer stack. Wondering if some can point me in the direction of a stack that is similar (Non-methlyated, easy on the system and may not require a SERM) that doesn't take 3-4 weeks to get going? Or would it just be advisable to run it 6-8 weeks next time?

Again, thanks to everyone for the help during this process. Couldn't have done it without your help and guidance!
 
jbingham said:
Wanted to post a quick update to everyone that's helped me so far. I'm coming to the end of a 30 day cycle of 4-Andro and Alpha Mass (1-DHEA) I wish I would have bought another 30 day supply of 4-Andro since I have plenty of Alpha Mass left. I guess a nice 30 Day cycle is good for a beginner.

Definately noticed more gains the last week...strength is through the roof as is the fat loss and muscle gains. Went from 197 to 207 during this, and added a little fat at 1st (little too ambitious in the beginning with calories) but it's been a good run. I'll be starting my PCT (Sup3r PCT) on Friday with Activate Extreme, DAA as well. I have a SERM on hand but have decided I'm not going to run it unless I need it (what symptoms should I look out for?)

I'll also be re-starting creatine usage and have been on some L-Car to help with Fat loss during the last week or two.

This has been a killer stack. Wondering if some can point me in the direction of a stack that is similar (Non-methlyated, easy on the system and may not require a SERM) that doesn't take 3-4 weeks to get going? Or would it just be advisable to run it 6-8 weeks next time?

Again, thanks to everyone for the help during this process. Couldn't have done it without your help and guidance!
Click to expand...
I really like stacking the Andro's (1,4, and Epi). Another great addition would be Osta Rx.
 
Any undesirable sides? How long did it take to feel the 4 andro kick in? Considering tossing it in to my cycle.
 
PL8TES said:
Any undesirable sides? How long did it take to feel the 4 andro kick in? Considering tossing it in to my cycle.
Click to expand...

Nothing too crazy. Standard nut shutdown... they haven't been hanging as low but besides that, good to go. BP in check. No hair loss, acne or anything else. This was my 1st cycle and I was really happy with the smooth sailing
 
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