First PH stack (yes, I know...)

[Ev-dogg]

Sorry for the redundant thread, but I had a couple questions that I didn't see answered in other newbie PH threads.

About me: 29, 5'11", 173 lbs., ~14% bodyfat, training 3 years, researching PH for a month now
Goal: Add a moderate amount of lean muscle quickly

My idea for first PH stack

On cycle

Week 1-6: Halo - 3 ed
Week 1-6: Advanced Cycle Support - 2 ed (staggered a few hours from Halo intake)
Week 3-6: Andro-4 - 4 ed (not sure about this one -see question below)

PCT
Week 7-10: Ultra Male Rx: 1 ed
Week 7-10: E-Control: 2 ed
Week 7-10: Clomid (or Noval - which is better? see below)


Questions:
1. Is Andro-4 recommended for a beginner cycle? What about its side effects and estrogenicity? Mild?
2. Any need to take E control during cycle?
3. Clomid or Noval for PCT? (or neither??) Heard Noval is more effective at lower dose, but that maybe not needed if this cycle is mild?
4. Is there large risk for gyno during cycle, such that Noval should be on hand? Will Clomid treat gyno as well?


Thanks for input! Stoked as hell to get this ball on the road. Will post before and after pics

 

[Ev-dogg]

Please halp!

 

[Ev-dogg]

4-andro is really only recommended as a test base to offset lethargy from testosterone shut down. I've never personally ran it so I can't tell you how significant the conversion to estrogen is, but I've ran what it converts to and didn't have any estrogen issues. So it would be individual, I don't think you'll have any problems but again it all depends how your body responds to it.

Shouldn't need to take e-control on cycle, would be good to have nolva on hand. Either clomid or nolva would be fine for PCT. Nolva is better since it is better at binding to and blocking estrogen receptors in the breast tissue, keeping you from man boobs (risk of which is minimal with this cycle) So would be better to just get nolva, and have it on-hand in case you have estro issues on cycle, and if you don't, then just use it in PCT.

Thanks man; good insight. I may nix the Andro-4. Without it, will the gains be affected much?

 

[locallifter]

Probably won't lose out on much in the way of gains, but if you experience lethargy bad (I did on hdrol even though it's a mild compound), you'll regret not having it as you won't even want to go to the gym at all.

 

[Ev-dogg]

Probably won't lose out on much in the way of gains, but if you experience lethargy bad (I did on hdrol even though it's a mild compound), you'll regret not having it as you won't even want to go to the gym at all.

good call on that one. maybe I'll just use the lower dose of 2 ed for the Androl-4. im just worried about growing man boobs

 

[locallifter]

Everyone is, but the reality is that it's very rare that gyno actually sets in and manifests itself bad enough that you can't fix it with some Nolva. 4-Andro is such a low dose of actual test that there's hardly anything to worry about anyway. Keep a bottle of Nolva on hand and you'll never have to worry. Low dose an AI and you'll never even need the Nolva.

 

[thomasre]

I've run two cycles of halo without a single issue. You'll be fine. The 4-AD will help with lethargy though, which does poke its head out on occasion.

 

[Ev-dogg]

Everyone is, but the reality is that it's very rare that gyno actually sets in and manifests itself bad enough that you can't fix it with some Nolva. 4-Andro is such a low dose of actual test that there's hardly anything to worry about anyway. Keep a bottle of Nolva on hand and you'll never have to worry. Low dose an AI and you'll never even need the Nolva.

can i use nolva in place of clomid for pct? do i not need either one for pct?

 

[Ev-dogg]

I've run two cycles of halo without a single issue. You'll be fine. The 4-AD will help with lethargy though, which does poke its head out on occasion.

what were your gains like on each cycle?

 

[locallifter]

can i use nolva in place of clomid for pct? do i not need either one for pct?

Yes, Nolva is the best for treating gyno, so some people like to use that as a multi-purposed tool to avoid buying more stuff. Clomid is best at kickstarting the HPTA, and I'm personally hesitant to use Nolva after reading more about it (It's hepatoxic, has been linked to causing blood clots, and all sorts of other things).

You do want to have at least one for PCT though, you could use Torem as well if you like.

 

[Ev-dogg]

What's the word with these types of supplements coming back hot for say, a pre-employment drug screen. Only reason I ask is that I *may* be starting a new job in the next month or two and I'm sure there will be a pre-employment drug screen, not sure if just urine test or what. I would assume they would test for the usual suspects (marijuana, coke, meth, etc) but who knows. If there's any risk the test could come back hot due to the cycle, I'll just wait until after the drug screen to take start my cycle. Anyone have experience with this?